LED Growers Forum

lol, will have to check out that thread, sounds quite funny.

To be honest im quite young to growing so, I started small and simple and ramping up to more complicated things. First grow was 32oz comp on AFN, with a safe bet of soil,coco and bit of perlite mix. came second in the comp!
Bit like playing golf really, you can try and hit a tiger woods on each shot and end up deep in the shit, or just be realistic with it and do something sensible.
I really wanted to do it that way cos there will always be lessons learned, just cant go from nothing to superhero, without making a cock up somewhere, likely a few.
Second grow Im testing airpots and something bit bigger, will start up a thread for it soon, spending some efforts to create a timelapse vid for this one.
The DWC will take some time to get together, so no rush but I recognised its going to be a matter of good process control so I will give that a crack once Im ready. In the meantime I will do a few much simpler grows and build up some experience

Yeah that's the danger with water cooling, got to be careful and make sure you do it right if doing it at all, the worst case is a big spill. And if your using another liquid than water which can be the case, then prbly not a good idea to smoke that after!!!
safer bet might be to figure how to channel the output air from the sides of the led unit and route it straight out of the box rather than recirculate inside I guesse.

Im no fan of overcomplicating things when they don't need... or just reinventing a new wheel just for a laugh, but then I have lots of my own ideas and a love for trying things. Got to hit some sensible balance between output per £ spent tho. £5K sounds bit much for growing a few weeds to me. you can buy a lot of good shit with that!!!

raising CO2 concentration should not cause O2 concentration to drop really. Like you can have a lot of salt and a lot of pepper to. Early earth had a higher concentration of both co2 and o2, when things grew like monsters.
CO2 the plants will love during the day, O2 is absorbed as the other half of the breathing of the plant, mostly at night. some is used at the leaves themselves (you should have a good enough concentration of it anyway since the plants been making O2 all day long, unless its all been flushed away back to ambient O2 concentrations by the venting, still fine for most. O2 is also used a lot by the roots at night particularly, so keeping the dissolved oxygen concentration of the DWC water good is the aim.
O2 concentration which you can dissolve in water is quite low, so bubbling it is what helps. But there is a limit, you can saturate the water then no point bubbling any more really, its saturated, for the ambient temp and atmospheric pressure we have, for the moment.
Lower temperature water will, by the physics of it, be able to hold more dissolved oxygen, nearly twice as much if the water temp is dropped by 10deg c rather than matching the tent's ambient.
I will come to play with this stuff one day, but step by step Also I have plans for O2 sensors to measure the concentration and Co2 concentrations in water and air. Going by that should be able to "see" how quickly the plants are using CO2, O2 , indirectly measuring the Photosynth rate !

sounds like a monster tattoo man! now the challenge to leave them scabs well alone, good luck buddy.

Well that just goes to show how baked I was last night when I forgot about this thing called PHOTOSYNTHESIS!
That would provide the Oxygen I was after. More CO2 in means more O2 for the roots.
You really are having a good go at the controllers dude, I hope one day you make a lot of money from it... there's a big need for a controller showing actually what you need at a good price and if the controller side of the setup is the iPhone, even better.
I love my tatts, I saw Darren out of Miami Ink yesterday, I usually get all my work done in Miami, such good quality, so it was nice to save on the airfare this time. 4 hours of PAIN, just wish I could put some pics up, but that would be just plain stupid!
I'm afraid I'm a bit of a Tiger Woods... but I have planned meticulously, and hopefully will get much help from you guys on this forum if and when I fuck up.
I've done 2 very basic soil grows, with results that I know can be massively improved upon. After the minor disappointment of those grows, I realised I gave the plants NO attention or care, and just let nature get on with it. This time I'm approaching it more like a chemical equation, so I'm pulling out all the stops to try and get some medical grade for myself. Ambitious, I know, but hopefully once my cab is all dialled in, I should get some consistency. My first couple of grows are going to be very cautious, and once all the kinks are ironed out, I'll try and push it to the limit.

ciao teetee.
yes, I kind of costed up what I would want and thought wow, that's a lot!
I reckon if it could be low cost, modular and perhaps even open sourced, moreover it works well, then it could gather its own following. And the tinkerers would have a reasonable cost option to high tech growing.
I think it was in autoberry's thread I read about how the government categorise growing operations and note that small domestic style doesn't mean simple setup by any means, often the small act can be pretty high tech. I smiled at that, I think we're either in or going to be in that league.

Plus you gotto have fun with this stuff, if we didn't keep trying to better and turn it into a project it might get a bit same old formula and like watching paint dry
Im always up to one project or another always have been... keep the brain ticking. id go crazy forced to watch coronation street every night!

I also did soil/coco/perlite before and sticking with that combo for the moment despite the crazy plans that are being hatched. I think we'll learn something new in each grow, I certainly did first time round even with a good theoretical start. experience hey, cant inject that stuff! good to have few experienced guys around here to bounce off.
same as, first grow results were Ok but I know it could be much better and what I would do different (coming soon )

I was just glad to have completed a grow to be honest. And was quite funny as I joined that 32oz comp at AFN for the first grow alongside 30 or so others all I assume not first timer hey I join a comp 1st grow why not like me. Funny thing was somehow a third of them never made it past the first few weeks and dropped out for one reason or another, dead plants, over or under this or that. I didn't expect that.
Still, I guesse the prep worked out and apart from a nute low where I lost a week maybe, it did pretty good. this was the plant I submit and was voted in at second ;



Ah - heres my alterative to the moving light rail ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxQY8LS1dC4

like everything, reaching maximal means riding close to the fine line I reckon, so makes good sense to test cautious and ramp up from there, as you say.
going to be great to see your progress with this one, keep up the good stuff dude!

I am grinning from ear to ear. That green o matic is brilliantly simple.
Watching that Youtube link was like watching the prizes on display in a 1970's Dutch TV Quiz show. All you need is a young hottie pointing to them in an enticing manner!

teetee bro when you starting your grow.

All right mate!

I decided to change my air stones, and also while plumbing in my reservoir chiller, I decided to get some elbows in to make the pipework a bit neater. The lazy bastards in the hydro shop forgot to send it last week, so I spent half the day trying to sort that out. Should be here tomorrow (but I expect it on wednesday). And I'm still waiting for a replacement 50Litre flexitank, as the one I bought had a tiny pinhole in it. The tank is farly necessary as I am using RO water. For the 1st week or 2 I can manage with a few buckets, but long term, that will be a pain.

The DWC wont be used for a week or so anyway, but I want it ready to put the seedlings in. I spent the other day testing temps etc in the cabinet, and am getting 28.2 centigrade with Helios 6 which is is perfect for CO2 growing as I need to be between 26 and 30. growing in the winter is good, I can iron out any problems and be ready for the hot season - where I'm probably going to need an air conditioner.

Then over the weekend, my Wife and I had a massive arguement and I nearly dismantled the cab and packed for Australia. Panic over, and I'm here to stay! She's a feisty one that's for sure. Someone should start a thread documenting the differences in men and women when they smoke weed. Men stay cool, women become nutcases!


Basically when that last damn package arrives, I can complete the DWC chiller, then a clean up and disinfection of my grow room and cabinet, then a day of soaking in pH 5.5 water for the rockwool, airstones and all pipes. Then its planting time, so to answer your question Ledbud mate, I will bbe planting later this week!

Right, so we're back on track. I'm still waiting on that damn Flexitank so I can handle 60L of nutrient solution, at the moment I am gonna have to rely on 3 20L buckets.

As you might remember from my previous pics, I bought a large DWC unit which has a 13-15 US Gal capacity (actually 58L but I will call it 60 for ease of mixing etc.) and 16 netpots fed by a drip feed and 4 airstones in the nutrient.

I bought this for a couple of reasons.

1. I want to learn about DWC and this very versatile piece of kit can be used to grow 1 to 16 plants, and can do SOG and SCROGs. It is designed to work in a cabinet with restricted space, so it's not designed to grow Christmas trees. It can also be used to grow cuttings. To me, this is roughly 3 20L DWC tubs glued together, cos I'm planning to grow 3-4 plants. I'll cover the unused netpots.

2. One big reservoir makes it easier to keep an eye on the pH / EC / temp etc. I have a Bluelab Guardian fixed pH/EC/temp monitor and I wanted to use it. Also, from what I understand, RO water is highly susceptible to pH change, so a bigger amount of nutrient should mean less fluctuations.... remember, this is for me a training device.

3. I wanted to emulate the Supercloset system, which has had some success in the US. I have now, since receiving the unit, and learning... that this is a bit cumbersome, and I have the potential for disaster if one plant gets diseased and the others need to be separated from it. Also changing nutes and cleaning the tub might get tricky once the plants get a bit bigger. This should be OK, as I can prop open the lid about 6 inches and also I have a drainage tube in the unit attached to the pump that feeds the drip lines.

Early testing of the cabinet revealed high temps over 30 degrees at times, so as I need to have a reservoir temp of 18 degrees in a cabinet with 28 degree ambient temp. I needed to plumb in a chiller. Again, this would have been difficult with 3 separate pots.

This meant having to drill into my precious plastic lid... one fuck up and there's trouble. I got a couple of nice hole saws (a round hole cutter that fits on a powerdrill), one was 16mm and the other 25mm. I was gonna run the 2 16mm pipes from the chiller into the DWC tank through the lid, so I could just do 16mm holes and have a loose fit, or better still drill 25mm holes and fit IWS sealing glands for a light-tight and water-tight seal. SO LETS DRILL.

I decided to practice on some old plastic tubs, and so I shattered the first, and cracked the second.... I was shitting myself! So I decided to be gentle. I drilled a 2mm pilot hole, then enlarged to to 6mm. Then on the slowest power and only pulling the drill trigger a teeny tiny bit, I started with the hole saw, and lightly let the drill do the work, no pressure at all, and I did it, a nice clean cut. And it worked on the DWC too. Both times!

I fitted the sealing glands, and then did a bit of pipework using some 16mm elbows, so that I had a pump pulling water from one side at the bottom, going up to the inside of the lid, and around to the front. I decided to fit an inline filter here, to catch any crap before it hits the chiller. The pipework continued round the inside of the lid and popped out one of the sealing glands. I made a simple T using another bit of pipe and put that through the other sealing gland. The idea is that nutrient gets pumped up, travels around the inside of the lid and a filter, and out to the chiller. The chilled nutrient returns to the DWC tank and just splashes out of the T piece back into the nutrient. This way the pump is on one side and the return is on the other. I got the idea for the T piece return from the 'Undercurrent' hydroponic system. I figured it can only add a bit of oxygen and help mixing. The airstones will do that much more anyway though.

Here's a diagram to explain my plumbing...



Here's the inside of the lid after I fitted the sealing glands, this shows the original pipework that came with the DWC, it is for the Newjet NJ1200 water pump and drip feed network. Notice the drainage tube, open the tap on it and drain the unit when required.



Here's the finished job. All I have to do is attach the 2nd water pump (Maxijet MJ1000) to that bit on the left. If anything this was an exercise in playing around with plumbing, but I wanted to keep it neat. Remember I'm a bit OCD!


After editing, I saw what looked like a crack in the plastic lid, where the T piece sealing gland is.... no worries,there's no crack, must have been a piece of shit lying around or some crap on my lens.

This shot shows the T piece entering the DWC. I used cable ties to attach my plumbing to the existing pipework. In the foreground at the top is the inline filter, positioned for ease of maintenance. The pipe on the left going down is the drainage tube.



and from the outside...



I put a couple of straight connectors on the ends and that will make it easier to attach the cooler to the DWC after threading the pipes out of the grow cabinet... I'm placing the chiller outside the cupboard, so that it doesn't add to the heat inside.

Notice in one of the the pics, the straight airstones. In my next update I will give the low down on them. (They're crap...)
I need a smoke, so that's it for now!

Last week I was chatting with Autoberry.
When you go on the Hydro shop websites, they all offer DWC kits... a bucket, air pump and air stone (usually a 'budget' ball shaped one).
The air pumps are like the ones you use for aquariums.

My DWC was bought in the US, it would have come with an air pump and water pump, but I didn't bother because I didn't want American plugs and differing voltage issues. SO I bought the same spec air pump and water pump. The water pump is a NewJet NJ1200, so that's OK. The air pump was a Hailea 4 outlet air pump knocking out 600 Litres of air per hour. Sounds impressive... but that works out as 10 Litres per minute. The unit did come with 4 airstones, 50mm x 50mm cylinders. I thought these were pathetically small, so I got some 16 inch atraight airstones to lay in the bottom of the tub. I tested it and it worked nicely, lots of bubbles.

DWC relies on having highly oxygenated nutrient in contact with the roots at all times. Without the oxygen the roots drown, and also the oxygen acts as a disinfectant keeping root rot at bay.

Autoberry pointed out that I need 60 Litres per hour per 15 Litres of nutrient. That means I need 240 Litres per min, compared to the 10 Litres that I have already. WOEFULLY INADEQUATE. LEDDWCRigger also agreed the air needed increasing, but he suggested if you're running CO2 You want maybe half the volume of air vs water (60L bucket 30L air per minute.) Without CO2 and such you want about 1/4 - 1/3 (so 15-20L air for 60L bucket.). I decided on a compromise between the two very educated opinions...

Then Autoberry pointed out that standard aquarium kit is no good for our purposes. I needed to source kit from Koi Carp supply shops. Coastal Koi in Norfolk were recommended, and I bought 2 Hailea 9730 air pumps knocking out 60 Litres per min. I just couldn't go all the way to 240 L/min, that would have meant 4 air pumps... don't forget this is supposed to be a STEALTH cabinet. The noise would be horrendous. I also got 4 chunky 150mm x 50mm Aqua Angel ceramic airstones, some non return valves and some 8mm reinforced air line. (Standard pumps use 4mm airline, but as I'm going for MAXIMUM power, I needed better airlines).

Anyway, I took delivery of the new pumps and stones yesterday.

The difference was amazing... the air pumps were HUGE, but quieter than the one I bought from the Hydro shop. The airstones were pure class. Really smooth ceramic, should give masses of tiny bubbles. The cheap airstones were crumbly and seemed to produce bigger airbubbles. Finer bubbles means better oxygenation.

When I set it up... OMG the water looked like there was 100000 hungry Pirahnas scoffing on a dead cat in there. The water was so bubbly, it was almost like froth!

Here's some pics to explain...

Original airstones provided with the DWC...


The straight airstones that I bought. They seemed perfect until I spoke to Autoberry...


These are the Aqua Angel airstones...


Here they are to compare sizes...


LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT AIR PUMP, AND I BOUGHT 2 OF THEM!!! (And technically I should have got 2 more to get 240L/min.). The old pump is the silver one...


My airstone collection. Note how the cheap plasticy nozzles broke on the straight airstones when I tried to remove the airlines. The Aqua Angels had metal nozzles, and were well made...


Finally the non return valves. A must for using airpumps unless the pump is above the water level. I put them in anyway, even though my pumps are sitting on the top of the cabinet on polystyrene, (and they don't sound too bad).

Costings, well you get what you pay for, and good kit costs. The pumps were £69 each and the stones were £9.97 each, non return valves £8 each. Not a bank breaker.
If you're doing a DWC using 2x 20L buckets (the normal way), you need 1 pump and two stones.

This is the final set up with non return valves in place. Just have to connect the airlines from the pumps into the 2 non return valves. The airline will exit the DWC via the gap I made in the top left, when the lid is closed, it seals up nicely...


I'm gonna run some Onableech through the system now, I have rockwool and clay pebbles soaking in pH 5.7 RO water and this will be for a week. The books say upto 24 hours, but I've seen lots of fuck ups attributed to not pH soaking these for long enough, Autoberry said 1 week, so that it be!

Enough for now, need another smoke...

wow - great post teetee!
lots of pictures, information making it really clear and the thinking behind it all as well, very useful.

like those new pumps of yours they look the business! big but key attributes are quiet and powerful and it seems like they are a leagues better than the small aquarium pumps!
coming together very nicely indeed.

A note about the silver pump (I have two of the two-outlet versions)

Yes, those things are incessantly noisy. If you pop it open, you'll see many things aren't quite secured in place, and plenty of stuff that can rattle around inside.

Glad you got some better kit!