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Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:12 pm
by ledbud
I always keep 2 types photo plants max, they all don't feed the same and hard to control feed.
Des Fran I remember grows tall even after going into 12/12.
They will recover bro, i always up nuts for photo plants.
i am sure you work it out and grow monsters.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 am
by teetee
Cheers Ledbud mate, but it's all very difficult at the moment.

As I showed in my last post, the Des Frans and Gorilla are looking pale and yellow. The Gorilla has slowed down considerably.

I always seem to have one plant per grow that does this at about week 5 ish, be they Autos, or (now) Fems.... I'm thinking this is a pH Coco issue?

Funnily enough, I remember always getting a bit lazy with the feeds at around this time and instead of daily waterings, I end up feeding every 3 days for a bit, then panic when it all kicks off.
They've been drinking and leaving an over-concentrated medium, which has become acidic.

Having said that, although the coco looks dry, it is moist under the surface..... only PAK2 has felt a bit light after 3 days.... and she's the healthy one obviously cos she's drinking while the others aren't (as much).

I always use the same brand Nutes and Coco.... House and Garden. I looked at their website, and noticed they heavily wash out the coco.
I think this has reduced the so called alkaline buffering capacity of the coco, so on Wednesday I decided to do some tests.

First, I did a flush with EC 0.8 feed. I made some up 2 days before as a 'holding feed' until I worked out what to do.

I've always been reluctant to do a plain water flush because I worry that the Trichoderma and pH buffering capacity of the Coco will be washed out too...... they say you should NEVER water coco with anything less than EC 0.6 because of that. BUT, now I do plan to give a plain water flush based on the findings below......

SO... after giving an EC 0.8 flush to the big 3 at around 11am Wednesday, it was pH 5.8, and 26°C going in.

The room temp is managed by AC and stays at 26°C
Inside the tent, I get a max of 31°C and a min of 26°C, lights on 18 hrs, and dark between 12 noon and 6pm. RH is between 69% and 77%

First 250ml run off details as follows.... but I get about a litre of run off in total after giving 6-7L to them and they are in 25L airpots.

    Des Frans EC 1.9 pH 5.4 29°C
    Gorilla EC 2.0 pH 5.3 30°C
    PAK2 EC1.8 pH 5.5 29°C
I didn't do the squat PAK1 as I ran out of liquid.

Pretty obvious to see the Coco is too acidic and the Girls have locked out.

Now the next problem..... my equipment.

I have a Bluelab Guardian, a Bluelab EC Truncheon and also their pH pen....all about 6 years old, except the pH pen which is 3 yrs old.

As I said in post 1 of this thread, the Guardian's pH pen is out of action.... I haven't pulled my finger out and sent the whole unit back to Bluelab in NZ.

The reason why.... I still use the EC bit. My Truncheon gives a lower reading, so I only use that for mixing.... an expensive mixing rod!

The pH pen, well I had to calibrate it on Wednesday... it wasn't far off, so I think the pH's are reliable.

Then I remembered, I have some Bluelab 2.77EC conductivity solution..... yep the Guardian is spot on and the Truncheon is EC 2.3. As far as I'm aware, it's uncalibrateable.

Back to the tests...

Later on Wednesday, at 7.00pm I did a plain water flush... it was pH 5.9 straight out of the bucket, so I didn't bother fiddling around with pH down to get it to pH 5.8.
Water temp 27°C Tent temp 29°C RH 74%

I gave them 5 Litres each, standing by with the big 50ml syringe to catch the first 250ml and an aquavac for the rest of the run off.

Here's the run off details..... not good......

    Des Frans pH 4.8, EC 1.5, 27°C
    Gorilla pH 4.4, EC 1.5, 28°C
    PAK2 pH 4.6, EC 1.8, 27°C
    PAK1 pH 4.5, EC 2.2, 28°C
gallery_80973_7327_21330.gif (31.01 KiB) Viewed 6330 times

As you can see, at my current pH nothing is being absorbed.

I decided to fix this by re-alkanising the medium.... it has to be a gradual process without stressing the plants out. The idea is to increase the pH of my feed by 0.5 every day until the run off becomes pH 6.3.

So on Thursday, I made up a strong Sodium Bicarbonate solution. I got a litre of my usual EC 0 base rainwater, heated it up and dissolved as much Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking soda) as possible to make a supersaturated 'Molar' Bicarb solution.
I managed to get the pH of the Molar solution up to pH 7.9. I asked the eminent Scientists at Google, and they reckon the pH of a freshly mixed Molar Bicarb solution should be around pH 8.3, so I wouldn't be able to get it much higher than that.

I also made up 40L of an EC 0.8 pH 5.8 feed, got it to pH 6.3 (using the Molar solution as a pH up).

I gave them 6 Litres each, and here's the run off details...

    Des Fran pH 5.0 , EC 1.2, 29°C
    Gorilla pH 4.9, EC 1.2, 29°C.
    PAK2 pH 5.1, EC 1.7, 30°C
    PAK1 pH 4.7, EC 1.9, 30°C
So it looks like the pH is rising, and the EC is dropping. Woo Hoo!

Visually, there was no change, obviously. This was the first pH adjustment, so there's a long way to go yet, but at least they are heading in the right direction!

Last night I gave them the same EC 0.8 feed as the night before, with a bit more of the Bicarb solution to make it pH 6.8.

Here's the run off data....

    Des Frans pH 5.6, EC 1.2 32°C
    Gorilla pH 4.9, EC 1.2, 32°C
    PAK2 pH 5.1, EC 1.2, 32°C
    PAK1 pH 5.3, EC 1.5, 32°C
The PAKs continue to look very healthy and green, but the DF and Gorilla look much the same, if anything the DF looks worse.

Still, the data for the DF looks the most promising, the pH is rising the quickest, and the EC's are dropping for all of them.

Day 43 update.

Let's start with the group shot.....
day 43 group.JPG
clockwise from front left: Gorilla, PAK1, Des Frans, PAK2

They are all growing, despite the pH issues, but some better than others.

PAK1 is toddling along, gaining millimeters each week in height. She is 20cm tall now, having grown 5cm in the last 6 days.
day 43 PAK1 1.JPG

She's looking pretty healthy....
day 43 PAK1 2.JPG

PAK2 is also looking reasonably healthy, but beginning to show signs of trouble lower down....
day 43 PAK2.JPG

Her stems are nice and thick, and she stands at 58cm. She was 45cm last week, so she seems fairly happy.

Des Frans is also growing at a terrific rate. She is the tallest at 60cm, but her stems are thinner, and of course there's all those pale and yellowing leaves.....
day 43 Des Frans.JPG

I'm waiting to see if those leaves go green again after all this horsing around with the pH.

FInally Gorilla. She's 42cm which is just 2cm growth in the last 6 days.... not a happy bunny at all.....
day 43 Gorilla 1.JPG

She looks like she's begging for some Nitrogen, so I'm planning on making a different feed for her and the Des Frans that will have less base nute, and more N, keeping the EC at 0.8. Then all the usual pH balancing with the Bicarb.
day 43 Gorilla 2.JPG

I'm thinking about what to do when they recover... I'm hoping within the next week....

One idea is to put a net over at about 40cm, then supercrop the taller stems of the PAK2 and Des Frans, open up the canopy, lift the PAK1 to the same height, give them another week to veg then flip 'em.

Another thought is to put some stakes in and tie down those bigger stems....

What do YOU think???

So that's it for now, I'll continue posting the pH figures each day. Thanks for popping in!

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:41 pm
by ledbud
I am sure you work it out bro. as they are photo plant they will recover.
Net will make hard to work so if it was me i will super crop.
I am sure all will work out.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:12 pm
by ledbud
How your girls doing bro.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:21 pm
by teetee
ledbud wrote:How your girls doing bro.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hi Ledbud, it's day 53 and this grow is STILL in veg!!!

I have been fart-arsing about with the pH issues and had a partial recovery, but I really wanna flip these bitches and move on.

The PAK2 and Des Fran were getting tall, so on Saturday last week, day 50, I decided to take action and placed a small sheet of mesh over them and supercropped the branches of the plants onto it....
day 50 group.JPG
clockwise from back left: PAK2, DF, PAK1 and Gorilla

Here's a close up of the PAK2:
day 50 PAK2.JPG

and the Des Fran:
day 50 DF.JPG

The Gorilla's side stems were just at the height of the mesh, and she hasn't been growing very well, so it wasn't worth it, and the PAK1 was healthy but too short....

The PAK2 and Des Frans recovered very quickly, and when I checked the next morning, the tops were all pointing up and it's now been 3 days, so here they are all together today on day 53....
Day 53 Group.JPG

and a closer look at the back two...
Day 53 PAK2 and DF.JPG

PAK2 is very happy, nice and green and has loads of tops....
Day 53 PAK2 2.JPG

I gave her a good trim under the mesh....
Day 53 PAK2 1.JPG

I kept a couple of shorter stems and pulled them out so they can get a bit of light, only because their tops looked like they were growing vigorously...
Day 53 PAK2 3.JPG

Des Frans is looking a lot paler... still very low pH readings from the run off... pH 5.1 even though I'm feeding pH 6.8 feed.

Here's how she looks...
Day 53 DF 2.JPG

Lots of tops, so hopefully she'll be OK.
I gave her a good trim below the mesh as well...
Day 53 DF 1.JPG

There's a bit of the PAK1 there in the bottom right... here's a better look...
Day 53 PAK1 1.JPG

She's about 25cm high and has 9 decent looking stems...
Day 53 PAK1 2.JPG

I feed the PAKs an EC 0.9 feed at pH 6.3.... that gives me a pH 5.3 run off.

Gorilla is beginning to pick up, the poorliest of the bunch is now 50cm tall, and the mesh is at 35cm.

So she's growing again, and just in time!
Day 53 Gorilla 3.JPG

I am giving the Des Fran and Gorilla the same EC 0.9 feed as the PAKs, but adjusted to pH 6.8. The Gorilla gives me a pH 5.3 run off, so it seems the acidity in the medium has improved from the pH 4.4 that I was getting 2 weeks ago.

I planned to flip them the next day, just straight to 12/12, rather than 15/9 then 12/12 as I don't know how long to keep them on 15/9 for, and I just wanna get this shit done!

Well I did flip them as promised, I usually have lights off at 12pm and lights on at 6pm for 18/6 veg, so last Wednesday at about 8.30ish, I adjusted the clock and set the Harvestmaster control unit to 12/12, with lights off at 7.30am and lights on at 7.30pm.
So they went from 18/6 to 14½/11, to 12/12 - Mother Nature must be pissing herself at my feeble attempts to imitate her!

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:14 pm
by teetee
Day 60 update

We've been on Cyclone alert for the last week... In the end, Tropical Cyclone Oma decided to head away up the coast, and we were spared a full on lashing, but had winds up in the 80km/h region all weekend.
We only had a 4 hour power cut while they fixed some broken lines further up in the jungle... and it was during my dark period 7.30am to 7.30pm, so that was lucky.

My mixed bag of Dutch Dames been in flowering mode 12/12 for 7 days now, and all is well, considering all the pH issues of late.

Here they are as a group.....
day 60 group 1.JPG
clockwise from top left... PAK2, Des Frans, PAK1 and Gorilla.

They are all stretching. with the PAK2, Des Frans and Gorilla all around the same height...
day 60 group 2.JPG

The Gorilla is 69cm high, a massive improvement since last weeks 50cm, and the Des Fran and PAK2 have stems that are 45cm above the mesh, which is 35cm above the coco.

Yes, that's right, the Gorilla is growing again....
day 60 Gorilla 1.JPG

I'm still giving her EC 0.8, pH 6.8 to 7.0 feeds, and I am still getting run off values in the pH 4.9 to 5.4 range, but it seems to be allowing her to get some of what she needs from the nutrients.

From above, she's looking a bit greener and seems to be picking up where it's most needed... her canopy....
day 60 Gorilla 2.JPG

... but lower down she's showing how sick she was/is....
day 60 Gorilla 3.JPG

Des Frans (on the left) and PAK2 share the mesh at the back, and are filling it out nicely....
day 60 DF and PAK2.JPG

Des Frans is looking a bit greener as well, since the pH adjustments....
day 60 DF 1.JPG

... and she's stretching well.....
day 60 DF 2.JPG

She's also on the same pH feed as the Gorilla, and again, seems to be happier than she was 3 weeks ago.

PAK2 is really going for it....
day 60 PAK2 1.JPG

Loads of tops, and her stems are good and thick!
She's on an EC 0.8, pH 6.2 mix, and even though she also gives run off pH's in the 4.8 to 5.4 range, she's thriving....
day 60 PAK2 2.JPG

I haven't mentioned PAK1 at all, but she's coming good after a really slow start....
day 60 PAK1.JPG

She is on the same feed as PAK2, and has grown from 25cm last week, to 34cm, and is 60cm in diameter.
She's a compact little bush with nice chunky stems, and I think she's gonna look real purty come harvest time.
Yeeeee Hahhhhh!

All of them are showing the first signs of flowers, so I am looking forward to these next few weeks.
I'm managing the pH issues so far, and I'll let you know how I get on!

Thanks for looking in!

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:23 pm
by ledbud
Cyclone man that is crazy teetee bro, keep safe.
Your girls looking nice and back on track, PAK1 will stretch she is looking very healthy.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:11 pm
by Newgrow420
Brought them back like a pro bro, well done.

Can't wait to see how they turn out. Especially Pak 1. Looking dense as!

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:03 pm
by ledbud
Teetee is a pro bro
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Teetee goes to the 'dark side'

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:58 am
by teetee
Well I'm writing this while listening to The Prodigy's 'Experience'.... smoking a fat doob, remembering the days when you could drop a Rhubarb and Custard and dance like you were Keith :evil: Flint. (Keep on Dancin'.... keep on dancin'.......)

Mitsubishi's, White Doves, Dennis the Menaces.... man those were great days, and the video for Smack my Bitch up was (almost) like the perfect night out!
Wild times, never to be repeated!

Anyway, seeing as it's the middle of the night here, and lights are on (we are moving at 9 times the speed of sound..... Roger) why not take some pics of the Girls.

It's day 66, 13 days into flower, and this is how the tent looks....
day 66 group 2.JPG
clockwise from top left, PAK2, Des Frans, PAK1 and Gorilla.

Looking full and a nice level canopy..... the PAK1 is up on a box to bring her up to the others......
day 66 group 1.JPG

Those Skyline 400's are doing the job nicely, but I might get out the Skyline 100's to add to PAK2 at the back left there.

I've realised I have to do more waterings for sure.... once a day (if I can be arsed) is just not enough.... but I'm not used to having lights off, and mine are off between 7.30am and 7.30pm.

I used to be able to go in at anytime and give them a feed, but now I'm only able to do a feed in my evening time... once the kids are down etc... so 9pm maybe.... and that's after having to get rid of a bucket or 2 of run off (by chucking it out into the jungle - we have septic tanks for our 'domestic waste' and bunging nutes in there would be a no no) then to lug 40L up and do the mixing etc.

Come morning time, there's so much to do to get out for work, that I miss them before the lights go out at 7.30am.

So, yesterday I put back the clock on my Harvestmaster by ½ an hour while it was dark, and did it again that evening when the lights were on, so that in the end, I've shifted the clock back an hour... and I can get a watering in before I go to work.

I'll have to be a bit more proactive with my reserve nute, but if I pull my finger out, I could give them a feed at lights on (8.30pm), then before I go to bed (1am), then again before work at 8am.

I'm watering 3 times a day!!!! Better than 4-5 times a week, which is what was going on... doh! :roll:

I'm giving EC 1.0 pH 6.0 and they all seem very happy on that.

PAK1 needed the elevation, she is looking sweet as a nut....
day 66 PAK1 1.JPG

She's stretching nicely and her stems are nice and thick with plently of nodes going on....
day 66 PAK1 2.JPG

... and her flowers are beginning to form, with nice crowns already showing....
day 66 PAK1 3.JPG

Everybody is in the place!!! Let's GO!

I swear I can get Ecstasy flashbacks if I try hard enough.....

PAK2 is a BEAST. Look at the size of this Bitch.....
day 66 PAK2 2.JPG

From the top, she is really spreading out.....
day 66 PAK2 1.JPG

Again she's got some chunky stems and is stretching very nicely....
day 66 PAK2 4.JPG

She's very dense, and I have to keep up with leaf tucking and the odd minor defoliation to let the light and air into those numerous bud sites. I'd say she's the most advanced of all of them....
day 66 PAK2 3.JPG


Des Frans is also a big Girl and is picking up after all that pH business.... I'm still getting pH4.8 -5.2 run offs, but whatever I'm doing, it seems to be working...
day 66 Des Frans 2.JPG

I really stripped her arse out....
day 66 Des Frans 4.JPG

From above she has a good amount of bud sites.....
day 66 Des Frans 1.JPG

.... athough they aren't quite as developed as the PAKs
day 66 Des Frans 3.JPG

Lastly the Gorilla..... she's really picked up, and is taking off!
(.... sent into Outer Space to find another race...)
day 66 Gorilla 1.JPG

Her new growth looks really healthy (at last!), so I hope she gives me a nice show for the rest of the grow....
day 66 Gorilla 2.JPG

Thanks for dropping in, and thanks, Keith for being that twisted Firestarter. That self inflicted mind detonator.....